Comments on: MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron

By: ADWAYNE51

ADWAYNE51 — Fri, 16 Dec 2011 18:33:00 +0000

MJ>KOBE>LEBRON

By: anonymous

anonymous — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 19:35:00 +0000

hands down michael
1. michael
2. kobe
3.lebron

By: Rob El Nica

Rob El Nica — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 23:43:00 +0000

1) Gary payton Jordan’s best defender??? Payton was an awesome defender but like you would say, C’MON!
Ever heard of Dumars? too skinny? Ok how about Rodman (pistons)? did i just go back too far in time? how about a more recent one. How about we go just a little far back to a couple years ago to the “out of the blue, coming from nowhere super human mutation strength ultra athletic and ridiculously tall athletes era” of today? Didn’t jordan drop 30+, 40+ and 50+ point games at the age of 39-40 after not playing at the NBA level FOR 3 YEARS on guys like Garnett? Surrounded by mediocrity, and K.Brown (arguably the biggest bust in NBA history) as his starter? How about defenders like Artest? Marion? K.Martin etc…Just to name a few!!!
By the all star break, i think ’01 or ’02 he had identical numbers to kobe in ppg, aps, rpg even fg%!! before he blew out his knees and his numbers deflated…

2) HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU COMPARE SHAQ TO PIPPEN??? Shaq is considered one of the most dominating offensive forces in basketball history. Pippen avg’d 16-18+ ppg for his career!! I’m not putting Pippen down, I’m putting your argument down. The role, influence and impact that Shap had on his teams compared to Pippen is COMPLETELY LOPSIDED IN SHAQ’S FAVOR.

3) During the lakers first 3 peat, kobe would average mediocre numbers in the finals, i.e very poor fg%… He had guys like Karl Malone (top 3 forward all time), G. Payton (9 time all def first team), Shaq (top 3 center ALL TIME).. Kobe didn’t LEAD his teams to 5 rings,,, he LEAD his teams to TWO….

By: LeBieber

LeBieber — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 01:23:00 +0000

Michael Jordan = Michael Jackson
LeBron James = Justin Bieber

By: AIR_JORDAN_REIGNS

AIR_JORDAN_REIGNS — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:24:00 +0000

This stupid thing reorganized my stats and messed them all up but you guys can probably figure them out!

By: AIR_JORDAN_REIGNS

AIR_JORDAN_REIGNS — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:24:00 +0000

This stupid thing reorganized my stats and messed them all up but you guys can probably figure them out!

By: AIR_JORDAN_REIGNS

AIR_JORDAN_REIGNS — Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:19:00 +0000

Type you           CAREER STAT COMPARISONS

                           PPG       FG%       FT%       3P%       APG       SPG       BPG       RPG

MJ         30.12     49.7          83.5         32.7          5.3         2.35          .8           6.3KB         25.3       45.4          83.7         33.9          4.7         1.5            .5           5.3LBJ       27.7       47.9          74.4         32.9          7.0         1.7            .8           7.1

SCORE:   MJ = 3/4/1   KB = 2/5/1   LBJ = 2/5/1

                                                    PRIME VS PRIME (Best 3 consecutive years)

                                                PPG    FG%   FT%    3P%    APG    SPG    BPG    RPG

MJ   (1987-1989)       34.9     51.8      84.9      19.6       6.2       2.98     1.3       6.2    KB   (2006-2008)       31.8     45.7     85.2      35.0       5.8        1.7      .66       5.8LBJ (2008 -2010)     29.4     49.2     75.3      33.0       7.7        1.7      1.1       7.6

SCORE:   MJ = 4/4   KB = 2/6   LBJ = 2/6

                                                                 BEST SEASON

                                                PPG    FG%   FT%    3P%    APG    SPG    BPG    RPG

   1.   MJ   (1988-1989)        32.5      54        85        28           8         2.9       .8         8
   2.   KB   (2002-2003)          30        45         84        38          5.9       2.2       .8         6.9
    3.   LBJ (2007-2008)          30        48         71        32          7.2       1.8       1.1       7.9

SCORE:   MJ = 6/2   KB = 1/7   LBJ = 1/7

                                                      HIGHEST SCORING GAME

                                               POINTS   FG%   FT%   3P   AST   STLS    TRB   BLK

   1.   MJ    (03-20-90)                69         62         91        2       6        4          18
   2.   KB    (01-22-06)                81         61         90        7        2         3            6        1
   3.   LBJ   (03-20-05)               56         50          ?           6        5        2          10

SCORE:   MJ = 5/3   KB = 3/5   LBJ = 0/8

                                        CAREER POST SEASON STATS

                               PPG        FG%     FT%      3P%      APG      SPG      BPG      RPG

   1.   MJ                33.4         48.7         83         33.2          5.7         2.1        .88          6.4
   2.   KB               25.4         44.8         81.5      33.5          4.8         1.4         .7           5.1
   3.   LBJ              28.7         45.9         74.9      32.3            7           1.6          1           8.5

SCORE:   MJ = 4/4   KB = 1/7   LBJ = 3/5



                                            CAREER ALLSTAR STATS

                              PPG       FG%      FT%      3P%      APG      SPG      BPG      RPG

1.   MJ                20.2        47.2         75          27.3          4.2        2.85       .46          4.7
2.   KB                20.3         51           81          34.5          4.5        2.8         .3          5.3
3.   LBJ              23.7        50.4         66.7         35            5.3        1.8         .3           6.3

SCORE:   MJ = 2/8   KB = 2/8   LBJ = 4/4

                                                    GRAND TOTALS

MJ = 24   2. KB = 11   3. LBJ = 12

Note: One thing to take into consideration is the “freeze out” that Magic Johnson and Isaiah Tomas implemented in MJ’s first all-star game which hurt his stats.



                                                    ACCOMPLISHMENTS

                    RINGS   MVP’s   SCORING TITLES   DOY   SLAM DUNK CHAMP

      1.   MJ         6           5                       10                     1                      2
      2.    KB         5           1                        2                       0                      1
      3.   LBJ        0           2                       1                        0                      0

                  ALLSTAR MVP    ROY   GOLD METALS    ALL NBA FIRST TEAM

MJ             3                      1                   2                                      9KB             4                      0                   2                                      9LBJ            2                      1                   2                                     5

     TOTALS: MJ = 5/1/3   2. KB = 1/6/2   3. LBJ = 0/7/2

                                                           KEY POINTS

When doing stat comparisons, records concerning the youngest player to reach certain land marks should be left out. Otherwise, MJ’s college stats should be added to his resume along with his NCAA championship and his two time college player of the year awards. If he would have joined the NBA right out of high school, a lot more would have been added to his long list of accomplishments.

Another point that should be taken into consideration is the fact that MJ missed most of the 1986 season as well as all of the 1994 and 1995 seasons. Those were three years in his prime where he would have put up outstanding numbers and might have possibly garnered two more championships. He also retired prematurely at 35 and then came back as a Wizard at the ages of 38, 39 and 40 where he tarnished his stats a bit. If he would have played those two years at 36 and 37, that would have made a major difference as well. Add that to the three years he missed in his prime and that’s five more years worth of stats that could have been put in the books which would have made his career numbers almost impossible to exceed.

One final Point to consider is the fact that Kobe Bryant was a bench player for the first few years that he was a Laker and didn’t even come close to playing the 82 games. If he would have been a starter as well as a team leader right out of high school, It’s inconceivable to think that LeBron would be breaking any of Kobe’s early scoring records.

                                                   INTANGIBLES

        I’m going to name things that each player is better at than the other two.
MJ
   1.   The quickest first step off the dribble.
   2.   The best mid ranged fade away jumper.
   3.   The most creative shot selection.
   4.   The best dunker if you combine game time plays and the dunk contest.
   5.   The best ball thief.
   6.   The best all around scorer.
   7.   The best lock down defender.
   8. The best at driving the lane and getting to the hole.
   9. The best at finding high percentage shots.
10. The best in the post.
11. The sharpest and most graceful player.
12. The best at using one hand.
  13. The best at using his left hand.
14. The greatest hang time ever with the ability to change his shot in mid air.
        15. The best shot blocker per position.
16. The best in the transition game defensively.
17. The best at seeing the court and making the right plays at the right time.
18. The most determined competitor.
19. The best one on one player.
20. The best winner.
21. The best clutch player in NBA history. There are arguments about Kobe
         Bryant or Jerry West filling that position but all you need to look at is
         who owns most of the post season and finals highlights, records, game
         winning shots, etc. You can’t get anymore clutch than that!
KB
1.   The best jump shooter at the long 2’s range.
2.   The best ball handler.
3.   The best at the free throw line.
4.   The best at getting off improbable shot after improbable shot.
5.   The best spin moves.
6.   The hardest worker and practitioner.
7.   The hottest shooter in NBA history when he’s on fire.
LBJ
1.      The most powerful game.
2.      The best at going coast to coast.
3.      The best team personality.
4.      The best rebounder.
5.      The best passer.
6.      The most consistent at the 3 point range.
7.      The best spring off one foot.


                                                      ATHLETICISM
SPEED

MJ = 4.3 40
KB = 4.8 40
LBJ = 4.4 40

VERTICLE LEAP

MJ = 48”
KB = 38”
LBJ = 44”

These are basically the only two categories that are documented but we all know that MJ had the edge on inside quickness as well. LeBron is said to have a strength advantage at 6ft 8”, 250 lbs but we really don’t know how much of a difference that would have made against MJ if any. Magic Johnson who was the largest guard in NBA history at 6ft. 9, 225 to 230 lbs, once said that MJ was the strongest guard ever and that he had “big mans” strength. This he learned at the 1992 Olympics when they were on the dream team together. Other sizable players have said that about MJ as well. It may have been a closer match up physically between him and LeBron than most people think. Kobe falls behind in this category but his skill level has made up for a lot of it.

                                             PHYSICAL MATCH UPS
HEIGHT

MJ = 6ft 4 ¾
KB = 6ft 4 ¾
LBJ = 6 ft 8

APPROX. WEIGHT/PRIME

MJ = 210
KB = 205
LBJ = 250

LeBron is obviously larger than the two but MJ’s leaping ability closes the gap as far as the height advantage is concerned and his pound for pound strength closes the gap concerning the weight advantage as well. Kobe would be the most affected by the size difference when posting up against LeBron.


                                                  COMPETITION

The ongoing argument that today’s critics continue to make is how the league has changed; it’s more athletic and the players are at a higher skill level. Therefore, they try to catapult both LeBron James and Kobe Bryant to MJ’s status and some even dare to say that they’re better! So far, I haven’t seen anything that supports this theory in any of the categories I’ve broken down other than LeBron James having a size advantage and being the best player in the all-star game which isn’t a game of importance. MJ dominates in just about every other category. If Michael Jordan could match or supersede most of Kobe Bryant’s skills and compete with LeBron James physically, then why wouldn’t he dominate in today’s game? If no one can stop those two guys, how would they stop MJ who had even more to bring to the table? The fact is, the rule changes have favored players such as Kobe and LeBron. It’s a scorer friendly league in this era and without hand checking, the 3 second rule and neglecting to call hard fouls as they did back then, they’re able to dash through the painted area unpunished. MJ didn’t have that luxury. He got hammered going to the hole and physically beaten up on a regular basis. It was a much rougher game in his time and yet he still averaged over 30 points per contest for his career and closer to 35 PPG in three consecutive years of his prime! I can’t imagine what he would have had for a PPG in today’s game where they couldn’t touch him. 45? 50? Let’s not forget his all around game that went with it. My question is, how well would Kobe and LeBron have done against the late 80’s Detroit Pistons and the early 90’s New York knicks under the old rules? What would their numbers look like being ganged up on and beaten down? There’s no way that they would have maintained the stats they’ve been putting up in today’s game.

Another thing I continue to hear is how they play zone now as opposed to man to man. What difference does that make when MJ was getting double and triple teamed all of the time? Everyone geared their defense to try and stop him! Also, I believe he was playing against zone defenses when he was a Wizard and yet he still put up 51 points at 38 years old, 43 points at 40 years old, averaged over 20 points a game at that age, etc. while maintaining his all around numbers and shooting nearly 50% from the field. Can you imagine if he was young and in his prime at that time?

A term that people like to use these days is “The watered down 90’s” which I think is a joke. Why can’t they give MJ credit for what he really was? Does anyone even remember what he had to go through to win his first title? Let’s start with the three legendary teams he had to play against in the 80’s. Larry Bird’s Celtics, Magic Johnson’s Lakers and Isaiah Thomas’s Pistons which was arguably the roughest, dirtiest and best defensive team ever. The other two were great all around championship teams for the ages. He had to get past those guys which was much stiffer team competition than what you have now across the league. Then, he had to defend his title by getting past teams like those bruising New York Knicks, the Pacers, the Magic, the Trailblazers, the Sonics, the Suns and the Jazz which were all bordering a championship as well. It was MJ that kept them out of the contention. It’s absurd to say that he and the Bulls lacked competition. It was there.

Then there are those uneducated people who insist that there was a lack of NBA talent in MJ’s era! Let’s see how much water that holds. Here is a list of players that he played against from early in his career until he retired as a Bull…

Dr. J, Dominique Wilkins, Charles Barkley, Larry Bird, Isaiah Thomas, Karl Malone, Bernard King, George Gervin, Clyde Drexler, John Stockton, Kevin McHale, Shawn Kemp, Magic Johnson, Glenn Rice, Tim Hardaway, Mitch Richmond, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Dennis Rodman, James Worthy, Grant Hill, Mark Jackson, Penny Hardaway, Joe Dumars, Alonzo Mourning, Reggie Miller, etc. I’m sure I left some out but most of these players are Hall of famers or at least all-stars that MJ competed against throughout most of his career. Does anyone remember these guys?

Then, we have these top caliber players that he competed against later on when he was in the twilight of his career…

Kobe Bryant, Paul Pierce, Allen Iverson,Vince Carter, Ray Allen, Steve Nash, Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Tracy McGrady, etc. Should I go on?

Wait a minute… I left out several all time great centers but I can’t name them without reminding you of the 3 second rule where they were allowed to wait around in the paint so they could hammer him coming down the lane!

Moses Malone, Artis Gilmore, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Ralph Sampson, Bill Laimbeer, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaq, David Robinson, Robert Parish, Patrick Ewing, Dikembe Mutombo, Bill Walton, etc.

I just named 12 star centers (6 of them in the top 10 all time list) that played during MJ’s era along with 35 other great players. That’s a total of 47 top competitors that he played against during his career and I’m quite certain I left some out. If someone can come up with a better list than that who are playing in today’s game, I sure would love to see it!

I agree that the players are bigger today overall but that gets cancelled out due to the lack of star power in the center position. There isn’t near as much talent across the league under the rim as there was in MJ’s era. I also agree that the players are more athletic these days but that gets cancelled out due to the fact that they’re lacking the fundamentals that the top athletes possessed back then. I’ll put my money on the smart and educated player over the more physically gifted player any day. I can agree that the league “sees” more skill in today’s game but I won’t agree that it’s because the players are more skilled. It’s because of the rule changes. Taking the physical play out of basketball is like taking the left hook out of boxing. If you go into battle without having that to worry about, it frees you up to do so much more. This debate could go on and on but I’m going to sum it up by saying that MJ earned every bit of his status as the greatest player of all time and deserves all of his championship rings as well. Anyone who wants to try and discredit his accomplishments better bring some valid facts along with the stats to back them up rather than the weak arguments I’ve been hearing. Until then, MJ will not be dethroned for a very long time!

My list goes like this…

1. MJ
2. KB
3. LBJ

Even though the overall stats show a little favoritism for LeBron James, he still has to get past Kobe Bryant in my book to become the best player in the league let alone, the greatest of all time. He’s a better rebounder and passer than Kobe is with a higher PPG and shooting percentage but it remains to be seen how much of that he’ll have to give up in order to win a championship. Then the real comparisons can begin. I’ll also give him the edge in size and athleticism but on the flip side of the coin, Kobe can play the half court offense. He can post up and create shots for himself much better than Lebron can, he’s significantly better at the line, his mid-range jumper is second to none in the league, he’s a better defender and he’s the best clutch player in the NBA. Add five championship rings to his resume versus Lebron’s zero and we don’t even have a discussion at this point. SWISH, Game over! r comment here.

By: Jaduayi

Jaduayi — Sun, 29 May 2011 04:08:00 +0000

i think that lebrone is better then mj because lebrone can ast the ball better than mj, reb better than mj and play better def

By: Christopher Brandão

Christopher Brandão — Sat, 28 May 2011 07:16:00 +0000

I agree, also take jame’s first 7 seasons and compare that to Jordans its not that far off at all. but we have to wait cuz i love jordan and james comes second. but ill tell you something i just can not see james not winning 4 in a row. I think he can 4 in a row or more. And he would have to do that to be considered greater than jordan, FOr me he doesnt have to win 4+ in a row but for the rest of the idiot world, when you really think about it. Imagine James with 4+ championships in a row. damn now that will be debate for jordan

By: Christopher Brandão

Christopher Brandão — Sat, 28 May 2011 07:16:00 +0000

By: Christopher Brandão

Christopher Brandão — Sat, 28 May 2011 06:49:00 +0000

Wong comparison. since james has the least amount of years you cant campare that to all of jordans and all of kobe you idiot ok.
this is what you do you take the fist 7 years of james and compare that to 1st 7 of kobe and 1st seven of jordans and thats it, its not far to compare careers when they are all not done yet and are currently in different times of there career now. BS comparison. but ounce you do check it the RIGHT way you will see that James’s first 7 in stats are better then kobes so therefore kobe is ruled out. then put Jordans first 7 against james and see how close it is.

By: Bill

Bill — Thu, 26 May 2011 23:27:00 +0000

For everyone that argues against the use of stats in determining who is the G.O.A.T. then consider this. Once MJ honed his game and won his first championship nobody beat him. For six years he thoroughly dominated the game. Since he could only play against the competition of his generation you have to look at how he competed against that talent. He found a way to completely dominate the players he played against and if he were in another era he would adjust his game accordingly. Kobe has not exhibited this type of complete domination for a year let alone 6 (Jordan once averaged 43 ppg in the playoffs, domination). With Kobe there have always been other players winning scoring titles, championships and MVPs (Nash even had 2) during his prime. During Jordan’s prime he put up a virtual eclipse on all relevant awards and overshadowed great players who would have gotten much more recognition. Karl Malone is second all time in points and hasn’t even been mentioned in these comments because MJ was good we forget about him! Kobe is great but we have a tendency to over hype the now and discount the past. With the rules changes some ESPN analysts have speculated that Jordan could average 40+ in today’s more European style of play with much less hand-checking and the defensive 3 second rule wiping out the ability to crowd the paint. MJ also averaged 35 ppg (Kobe’s season high) while winning the DPOY award which means he was the best offensive and defensive player in the same year, which is truly incomprehensible. Finally, if you had to draft a team from all players current and former to beat your most hated enemy you would pick MJ first. I don’t know if I’d even go Kobe second, maybe Kareem or Wilt or Magic. You would pick MJ because in his prime he was invincible and unbeatable and the definition of a winner, never lost a game 7 because when it was the line he would find a way to beat you. Also no player will ever have a moment like in ’98 against the Jazz when he stole it from the NBA’s second all time leading scorer, drove against a team who knew it was coming and hit a shot so perfectly dead center it rewrote the definition of a swish. The way that all went down like a script just showcased his unmatched mastery of the game and his complete superiority to his opponents. The way he just held it and bounced like he was shaking the last drip of spunk from his humongous mushroom stamp of a career made it all the more impressive.

By: Boone

Boone — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 22:16:28 +0000

@nicco, Also, the rules in today’s NBA protect players and make it easier offensively. There is no team in the NBA that has “Kobe Rules” or “Lebron Rules” like the Bad Boy Pistons had for trying to stop Jordan (look up “Jordan Rules” on google), nor would any team be allowed to play that physical of a game. The Pistons players were told “…any time he went by you, you had to nail him. If he was coming off a screen, nail him…” The rules in the NBA today simply would not allow this. So to say that the defense today is better than back then is ridiculous. I’m not saying that the players in the NBA today couldn’t be better; they are simply not allowed to play like they could in Jordan’s time. Also, with the addition of defensive 3-second rule, post players are not allowed to camp by the basket as they could during Jordan’s era. So please, do not say that Jordan would have to score 40 ppg in today’s game to make it comparable.

Again, please note that I am not saying that the players in the NBA do not have the potential to be better defenders. I am saying that the rules in place today favor the offense and would allow an easier time driving to the basket.

Also, I’m not saying Kobe and/or Lebron aren’t great players. They truly are great. However, they are not at the level Jordan was. Jordan was the superior offensive player (against more physical defenses and rules that made it more difficult for offensive players), and he was the superior defensive player (please look at blocks and steals).

I am sorry for the long post, but you obviously have a lot to learn about the differences between the NBA today and the NBA in Jordan’s era.

By: Boone

Boone — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:47:19 +0000

@allenmoll, Also Allen, you forgot to look at blocked shots. Jordan averaged more blocks per game than Lebron, even though Lebron is 2 inches taller. Good article, just wanted to add this point.

By: Boone

Boone — Wed, 24 Nov 2010 21:32:44 +0000

@nicco, The best defender against Jordan was Gary Payton? Really? Dennis Rodman won 2 DPOY awards while playing for the Pistons, and that is who was guarding Jordan. Jordan still was able to score. So please check your facts before you make comments on an article like this.