MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron

20 Responses to “MJ vs. Kobe vs. Lebron”

1. Anmol on September 11th, 2009 10:25 pm
   

   Dear Allen,

   FUCKIN AMEN

   [Reply]
2. Chase Noll on September 11th, 2009 11:03 pm
   

   Well you talk about Kobe being brought along more slowly. Compare the numbers by age starting with 21 throught 30 and you will see that in this case, Jordan is the one more slowly brought along being that he had 3 years of college grooming and Kobe had 3 at the highest level. Jordan still carries an overwhelming amount of statistical catagories. Except 3pt shooting which Kobe is much better and FT shooting is about the same. The only time Kobe gets close to Jordan in totals is in the playoffs where L.A. had deeper runs when Kobe was young than did Jordan’s Bulls. Also if you break down each players effiency per minute to accout for the distortion of OT games and such, Jordan leads every catagory. Can you imagine that numbers Kobe would have amass to end his career just to equal Jordan. And keep in mind, just like Jordan, Kobe’s numbers will dip towards the end. Had Jordan not been a Wiz, Kobe would have even more work ahead. And yes I’m a Kobe hater, but I try to stay unbiased. People talk about how these numbers aren’t even comparable considering the “evolution of basketball” or players are better today, but I believe that a players stats are proportional with everyone elses throughout the history of the game because, true, players get better by jumping off the blocks Jordan laid down just as he did with Dr. J but so did thier competition. That is why the numbers are the tell tell sign and Kobe just doesnt have the numbers no matter mine or anyone’s opinion.

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3. Paterick on September 12th, 2009 5:45 pm
   

   Looks like Lebron shits on Jordan considering Jordan has ‘0 Titles.’ …You’re good at your job.

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4. allenmoll on September 12th, 2009 7:15 pm
   

   Paterick,

   You’re right that in the “Titles” category after their first six seasons, Jordan and Lebron are equal, but where you get Lebron shitting on Jordan…………….I don’t get. As I stated in the article, although Lebron has overall better stats in rebs/gm, ast/gm and 3 pt shooting, Jordan leads everything else……..and had better individual seasons in rebs and assists at 8.0 in each per game. Unless Lebron averages 40+ pts/gm, and wins 7 titles and 7 Finals MVP’s in the next 9 seasons, Jordan’s numbers will still be better………..Good points Chase……..Glad u r on my side, Anmol

   Thanks for reading guys.

   [Reply]
5. nicco on September 15th, 2009 1:29 pm
   

   Deep sigh. Not again.

   Look, Jordan was one of the best to ever do it and I would have no problem with the argument. But please, let’s not let the argument to live and die with statistics. Although the author would have you believe that numbers don’t lie, there is, in fact, a famous claim: there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

   Number One: Take the argument about defense. Jordan is probably a better defender than Bryant but the argument should not rest on the fact that he won the DPOY a grand total of one time to Kobe’s nill. I mean, c’mon. By the time Bryant is done in this here game, he is going to match or surpass Jordan in All Defensive First Teams. This suggests that, in any given year, Bryant could just as well have earned a DPOY award. What I am saying is that it is called the Defensive Player of the Year award for a reason: BECAUSE YOU WERE THE BEST DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THAT YEAR. 1989 (IIRC) in Jordan’s case. Again, I think that Jordan is probably the better defender but that argument is weak sause.

   Number Two: Why do you bring up Shaq but not mention Pippen? I mean, c’mon. You’d think that Pippen was just some role player the way Jordan fans go on and not a hall-of-famer in his own right. And, like I said before, Jordan was probably a better defender than Bryant but there were times were Jordan was not even the second best defender on his team. Between Pippen’s long arms and Rodman’s rebounding, say I’m lying. Jordan was undoubtably the man on his team but he does not win six championships without Pippen and Bryant just won one without Shaq. That argument is tired and just expired. Next.

   Number Three. The Rookie stats are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. It is, in fact, a cheap ploy that the author uses to stick it to Bryant just because Bryant was a “late bloomer” (although IIRC, Bryant as 17 when he started in the NBA and Jordan was, well, not) and, by definition, will never have another rookie year. We are talking about WHO IS THE BETTER PLAYER is and you’re talking about rookie seasons. Yawn. Let’s instead talk about Bryant nailing 13 three-pointers in a game, or scoring 8 point in a game, or outscoring an entire team 62-61 by the third quarter, or–wait, wait, those are things that Bryant did that Jordan couldn’t. We can’t have that. Let’s instead only focus on things that Jordan did that Bryant couldn’t, like scoring 33 points a game during his rookie season. Moving on.

   Number Four: And I know this is probably going to go over the author’s head because you cannot quantify this, but era’s matter. The best defender against Jordan was Gary Payton. I love GP, but he was a toothpick next to Jordan. Bryant had to deal with Battier, Artest, Bowen. Bryant is asked to defend players like Wade and LBJ. The same cannot be said of Jordan. Unless you are prepared to argue that Bill Russel is a better player than Jordan–which of course you are not–put into perspective the relevance of statistics and awards with eras. Is it harder to average 35 points in a season nowawadays or back in the day? I know, I know, you can’t answer that with a number but do realize that the NBA ain’t no fantasy sport.

   [Reply]
6. allenmoll on September 15th, 2009 3:43 pm
   

   nicco,
   First, thanks for reading. Now for your points.
   #1 – Your arguement that Kobe is better because he WILL be on more All Defense Teams by the time he retires is all speculative. That is the same as saying that Lebron will be better because he WILL win more scoring titles. You can’t argue future possibilities. And DPOY is a big deal for most players. While Kobe and Jordan were both great man to man defenders, Jordan was much better at patrolling the passing lanes as evidence of his almost 1 steal/gm better average. I’l cover #4 while I’m at it. The fact that this whole article is about comparing era’s totally went over YOUR head. True it is tough, but your arguement that Battier, Artest, and Bowen are better than Payton, Dennis Johnson, Mo Cheeks, and Joe Dumars, who are all HOF caliber players is laughable. Jordan was asked to defend players like Magic, Erving, Bird, and Drexler, again all HOF players. Your arguement that the current crop of stars are better than those of the 80’s and 90’s is downright laughable. I’m sure everyone else laughed as well.
   #3 – I, the author never termed Bryant a “late bloomer”. It is a fact that Kobe did not have the opportunities of Jordan as a rookie. If he did, I doubt he would have put up the same numbers against lesser competition.

   I’ll be waiting to read your article on “Whether it was easier to avg 35 points NOWAWADAYS(funny) or back in the day.”

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7. nicco on September 15th, 2009 4:24 pm
   

   For the record, not once did I argue hat Bryant is better than Jordan. And you’ve completely missed the point if you think that I was suggest that because Bryant will earn more All-NBAs that Jordan that it therefore makes Bryant a better player. My whole beef with your article is that shovels out statistics as though they were the end all when they really are not.

   If you want to argue that the NBA was better defensively during Jordan’s era (even though Jordan was able to score 35 points a game by driving to the lane all day) then go make that point, but do so with context and conviction not with stats alone. If you want to make the argument that Jordan had to guard Magic and Bird (as opposed the the younger, stronger and/or faster LBJ and Wade) so there, then make that argument for real. Don’t just give me stats and walk away.

   Also, I know that you didn’t term Bryant a late bloomer but therein lies the problem. You didn’t. You just posted rookie stats for the sole purpose of padding your argument. And aren’t you now speculating when you suggest that Bryant couldn’t have done what Jordan did? Pot. Kettle. Black.

   Finally, I am typing this on a netbook so do forgive the typos. Anyway, I think the intent of my argument is clear so let’s try to focus on that, shall we. End.

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8. nicco on September 15th, 2009 4:42 pm
   

   And one more thing. I know I said it in passing but I think it really should be underlined that you cannot–I repeat: CANNOT say that there was better defense during Jordan’s era and that he was able to score 35 points a game driving to the lane all day. I am sorry but unless you are prepared to say that Jordan would average 40 points game in today’s leauge, (and knowing Jordan fans that probably is not too much of a stretch) those two are mutually exclusive. As I have said before, the best defender against Jordan was GP–and I love GP–but he was just too small to be guarding Jordan. This is to say nothing of the more sophisticated team defensive schemes that players now have to deal with.

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9. lance uppercut on September 16th, 2009 12:35 pm
   

   Hey, could you adjust this for the pace of the game? We all know that the game is played a ton slower than it used to be (excluding the Suns/Warriors), and so the numbers skew lower, especially for LeBron who plays for the molasses-fast Cavs. If you did these stats on a per possession basis, I think all three guys would look similar. I do not argue that Jordan was and is the GOAT, but I think it could be a closer race with an adjustment for pace.

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10. sas on September 28th, 2009 9:07 pm
    

    Kobe Bryant is probably not better than jordan. (Porbably) because playing back in the 90s and playing now almost 20 years later is pretty different. If the era these players played in dont matter then clearly the best player in the nba of all time is wilt chaberlane, who avergaed 50 pts per game in one season and scored 100 pts in a game. Also jordan won his titles with scotty pippen and kobe jusst won it pretty much on his own with some role players at his side. Also lets not bring about the mvp that jordan had compared to that of kobe because mvp is of the regular season. Now as important as people may think it is players like kobe, jordan, lebron etc. all play their fullest in the playoffs. Im not sayin that kobe wasnt trying in the regular season but rather he more than plays for him self, he is like a in court coach. He more than trys to score for him self, passes to his team mates and let them do thier thing while he coaches from the court. Now lebron however does not do what kobe does. rather he takes the ball for him self and trys his hardest to make plays. Im def. not sayin hes hoggin the ball but most of the time u watch the cavs play he seems to have the ball at his possession. How ever kobe seems to never have the ball (anymore) and is rather commanding his team. You might say ” y does leborn have more assists than kobe” and the reason for this is kobe way more of a out side player now. he doesnt drive in the lane but rather takes his special fade aways. i bring this up because if u watch basketball you know the players with the most assists are the players that dirve through the lane alot. ex. lebron, wade, chris paul, etc. while staying outside the lines commanding the team, kobe still manages to average about 5 -6 assists per game. kobe is a better team player now than lebron and jordan for the sole fact that he is alwayse commanding/ coaching his team rather than trying to make plays. If nessary however, he can, and has taken over the game by himself in order for the team to come out victorious. every thing i hav said is a fact so no need to argue on this topic.

    [Reply]
11. Maurico Meredith on September 30th, 2009 10:36 am
    

    Lebron Is da Best In da NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    [Reply]
12. Chase Noll on October 1st, 2009 8:14 pm
    

    Well nicco stats are all we have that aren’t opinion based everything else is shaky
    especially trying to judge the greatness of a slew of defenders just to judge MJ, KB, LBJ. Then you would have to judge the guys they were defending to validate their reputation as good defenders and so on and so forth. Its an endless loop. And unless you name is Nostradamus screw what these guys will be or will do.

    [Reply]
13. Chase Noll on October 1st, 2009 8:40 pm
    

    Oh and about Pip and Shaq. The difference is Pip was never the #1 guy with Jordan on the roster. Shaq was #1 on those first 3 runs and Kobe played Shaqs little helper. So your argument is just a little off. Compare Kobe and Scottie or Shaq and Jordan, at least for championships. You can with Kobe’s latest though. And without Shaq as you so insightfully mentioned. But what about Gasol, Odom, and Trevor “Twist the Knife” Ariza which is the only reason they won a couple of those games. You act like when Shaq was booted Kobe was all alone once he returned to contention. And why did you even mention Rodman. Dude rebounded his ass off but otherwise a LIABILITY. More ammo to Shaq, he left and won with another premier guy. Which means at the time Kobe was replaceable. Pip left home but never returned to glory as a number 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, or bench. I love Pip. Best Robin of all time.

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14. Mook on October 7th, 2009 9:04 pm
    

    …The comparisons were nice to see; but I also think- along with some of the other contributors- when making comparisons of this nature, other non-statistical (hypothetical) factors must be taken into consideration. The argument of who’s better, to me is more a philosophical question rather than a statistical one. Jordan had the better stats compared to both Lebron or Kobe… but if (hypothetically) Lebron finishes his career averaging 31.6ppg (which is likely if he decides to dramatically increase his shots pergame for several seasons), while gaining advantages also in the steals (possible), rebounding, assist (as is the case), categories; and also edging ahead in MVPs and having still no championships, would that automatically PROVE that Lebron is indeed better than jordan?

    Saying ‘yes’ to this question admits a contradiction: cause, in as much as the question is who’s BETTER, and the grounds on which we make such judgements is career statistics, then Lebron or Kobe in this hypothetical instance should be considered better… what they are not better at (and this is not something contigent on overall ability, but sometimes on chance) is winning. On this point, one can consider the careers of Karl malone, and Charles Barkley for instance, as compared to that of Tim Duncan (a force without question), who obviously trumps them in the ‘winning’ category, but may not be afterall ‘better’ than these two players.

    Continuing with the above hypothetical scenario. If Jordan would be considered a better ‘winner’, while Lebron and/or Kobe maintains a statiscal edge, can one venture to say that Jordan- the winner- is BETTER, even though what he has an advantage in (the ‘winning’ category) is something whose outcome is, as we’ve noted earlier, at times outside and beyond the overall ability of the player? If the answer is still ‘yes’, then at this point one MUST raise a criticism of how an objective judgement can be made regarding who is ‘better’. Because at best, given the information at our disposal to make the judgement that we want to make, we may only say (and still on the hypothetical scenario), that Lebron and Kobe had better career stats (which in and of itself does not make them ‘better’ per se) while Jordan was a better winner.

    Now apply the above to the actual scenario at hand; we are only allowed to make a similar judgment regarding who’s ‘better’ (point is we cannot effectively and accurately make that judgement). All we can say, given the information at our disposal is that at the point of the comparisons, Michael Jordan had ‘better overall statistics, while also being the better winner’. Again, lest I be misunderstood, one cannot make a judgement at this stage about whether Jordan is ‘better’ than Lebron or Kobe. Why? the above statement, does cover all the necessary categories required for us effectively and accurately make a judgement as to which of the players is ‘better’. For instance, given the information presented in the article, we’ve been given no choice but to concede the statement ‘Michael Jordan had better stats, and was a better winner’, but we don’t have enough information to measure, for instance, whether jordan was, lets say, faster at driving to the basket than, Lebron or Kobe, or better in anticipating events on the court; and these (few) are still yet another set of possible categories, or ’statistics’ required if we are to effectively make the judgement that this player is better than that one. For instance, if the statement ‘Jordan is just better’ is accepted based solely on the above statistical comparisons, we would be making an error in judgement, because we do not have ALL the information required for us to make a judgement of that sort; we may only say, as noted earlier, that ‘at the point of the comparisons, Jordan had better stats, and was the better winner’. Like it was also pointed out earlier, if Lebron was to bulk up his stats for several seasons consistently, and Kobe had the luxury of being the main option in his early years, and this resulted in a possible situation where both their stats were ‘better’ than Jordans, then we may in that instance make a similar statement about Lebron and Kobe, in short, that ‘they were better statistically, and were better at winning’; however, that (like the statement made in Jordans case) would be the only statement(s) we would be allowed to make giving the available information. We still would not be able to say, in the case of Kobe or Lebron (if they were to have better stats, and more championships) that they are necessarily ‘better’ basketball players than Jordan. The notion of ‘BETTER’ is not limited to statistics, and in turn cannot be determined by them. The notion of ‘better’, is a judgment which can be made if ALL the information or categories required to make that judgement are made available to us, and one rarely finds this to be the case. Instead, you encounter judgements being made based on limited information or categories: ie, Kobe is ‘better’ because of 81points in a game (dont forget…Jordan never did that), 62 in 3 quarters, 61 in 31mins, 50 in 4straight; Lebron is better because of 30ppg 7rebs 7ast in one season, career playoff 30ppg (dont forget… that’s higher than Kobe’s) 8rebs 7ast ; Jordan is ‘better’ because of career 31ppg, career playoff 33ppg, 6rings (be advised… Lebron or Kobe can never catch up), and so on. Deciding who’s ‘better’ is seldom an objective undertaking; we infuse much of our own thinking into determinging the significance of already existing statistical categories, and we may even form categories to align with our judgment(s) (which tends to precede the infomation required to make that judgement). Everyone, in including the analysts and ‘experts’ engage in this basic human behavior. Stats dont decide anything without the subjective mind interpreting it, and the subjective mind cannot interpret, or judge, unless it has information, or statistical categories (which in the case of this article, as well as many others, is always limited) at its disposal with which it can form a judgement.

    People on both sides have generally oversimplified this debate. It is far more penetrating than numbers and stats, but equally more complex and sophisticated than just opinion and whim. I appreciate the comparisons though; its always interesting.

    [Reply]
15. Mook on October 7th, 2009 9:14 pm
    

    …The comparisons were nice to see; but I also think- along with some of the other contributors- when making comparisons of this nature, other non-statistical (hypothetical) factors must be taken into consideration. The argument of who’s better, to me is more a philosophical question rather than a statistical one. Jordan had the better stats compared to both Lebron or Kobe… but if (hypothetically) Lebron finishes his career averaging 31.6ppg (which is likely if he decides to dramatically increase his shots pergame for several seasons), while gaining advantages also in the steals (possible), rebounding, assist (as is the case), categories; and also edging ahead in MVPs and having still no championships, would that automatically PROVE that Lebron is indeed better than jordan?

    Saying ‘No’ to this question admits a contradiction: cause, in as much as the question is who’s BETTER, and the grounds on which we make such judgements is career statistics, then Lebron or Kobe in this hypothetical instance should be considered better… what they are not better at (and this is not something contigent on overall ability, but sometimes on chance) is winning. On this point, one can consider the careers of Karl malone, and Charles Barkley for instance, as compared to that of Tim Duncan (a force without question), who obviously trumps them in the ‘winning’ category, but may not be afterall ‘better’ than these two players.

    Continuing with the above hypothetical scenario. If Jordan would be considered a better ‘winner’, while Lebron and/or Kobe maintains a statiscal edge, can one venture to say that Jordan- the winner- is BETTER, even though what he has an advantage in (the ‘winning’ category) is something whose outcome is, as we’ve noted earlier, at times outside and beyond the overall ability of the player? If the answer is still ‘yes’, then at this point one MUST raise a criticism of how an objective judgement can be made regarding who is ‘better’. Because at best, given the information at our disposal to make the judgement that we want to make, we may only say (and still on the hypothetical scenario), that Lebron and Kobe had better career stats (which in and of itself does not make them ‘better’ per se) while Jordan was a better winner.

    Now apply the above to the actual scenario at hand; we are only allowed to make a similar judgment regarding who’s ‘better’ (point is we cannot effectively and accurately make that judgement). All we can say, given the information at our disposal is that at the point of the comparisons, Michael Jordan had ‘better overall statistics, while also being the better winner’. Again, lest I be misunderstood, one cannot make a judgement at this stage about whether Jordan is ‘better’ than Lebron or Kobe. Why? the above statement, does cover all the necessary categories required for us effectively and accurately make a judgement as to which of the players is ‘better’.

    For instance, given the information presented in the article, we’ve been given no choice but to concede the statement ‘Michael Jordan had better stats, and was a better winner’, but we don’t have enough information to measure, for instance, whether jordan was, lets say, faster at driving to the basket than, Lebron or Kobe, or better in anticipating events on the court; and these (few) are still yet another set of possible categories, or ’statistics’ required if we are to effectively make the judgement that this player is better than that one. For instance, if the statement ‘Jordan is just better’ is accepted based solely on the above statistical comparisons, we would be making an error in judgement, because we do not have ALL the information required for us to make a judgement of that sort; we may only say, as noted earlier, that ‘at the point of the comparisons, Jordan had better stats, and was the better winner’.

    Like it was also pointed out earlier, if Lebron was to bulk up his stats for several seasons consistently, and Kobe had the luxury of being the main option in his early years, and this resulted in a possible situation where both their stats were ‘better’ than Jordans, then we may in that instance make a similar statement about Lebron and Kobe, in short, that ‘they were better statistically, and were better at winning’; however, that (like the statement made in Jordans case) would be the only statement(s) we would be allowed to make giving the available information. We still would not be able to say, in the case of Kobe or Lebron (if they were to have better stats, and more championships) that they are necessarily ‘better’ basketball players than Jordan.

    The notion of ‘BETTER’ is not limited to statistics, and in turn cannot be determined by them. The notion of ‘better’, is a judgment which can be made if ALL the information or categories required to make that judgement are made available to us, and one rarely finds this to be the case. Instead, you encounter judgements being made based on limited information or categories: ie, Kobe is ‘better’ because of 81points in a game (dont forget…Jordan never did that), 62 in 3 quarters, 61 in 31mins, 50 in 4straight; Lebron is better because of 30ppg 7rebs 7ast in one season, career playoff 30ppg (dont forget… that’s higher than Kobe’s) 8rebs 7ast ; Jordan is ‘better’ because of career 31ppg, career playoff 33ppg, 6rings (be advised… Lebron or Kobe can never catch up), and so on. Deciding who’s ‘better’ is seldom an objective undertaking; we infuse much of our own thinking into determinging the significance of already existing statistical categories, and we may even form categories to align with our judgment(s) (which tends to precede the infomation required to make that judgement). Everyone, in including the analysts and ‘experts’ engage in this basic human behavior. Stats dont decide anything without the subjective mind interpreting it, and the subjective mind cannot interpret, or judge, unless it has information, or statistical categories (which in the case of this article, as well as many others, is always limited) at its disposal with which it can form a judgement.

    People on both sides have generally oversimplified this debate. It is far more penetrating than numbers and stats, but equally more complex and sophisticated than just opinion and whim. I appreciate the comparisons though; its always interesting.

    NOTE: THE PREVIOUS POST CONTAINS AN ERROR WHICH HAS BEEN CORRECTED IN THIS POST. THE SENTENCE “SAYING ‘YES’ TO THIS QUESTION…”, SHOULD READ, “SAYING ‘NO’ TO THIS QUESTION…”. SORRY FOR THAT.

    [Reply]
16. tommyjr97408 on January 6th, 2010 7:17 pm
    

    For Kobe’s career, because he is already in his 30s, the comparisons are a little more valid, but for James career (and a little for Kobe’s) these comparisons are not an accurate analysis. The only way to compare Jordan and James somewhat accurately is to compare Jordan’s first three seasons with James’ last three because that is when their ages match…

    [Reply]
17. Coby on February 2nd, 2010 12:27 am
    

    Wilt!!!!!!! The most dominate player ever. Look at the stats. It’s not even close. The best, most feared, highest scoring, and best personality ever. Arguing that his competition wasn’t there is not fair. I’m just sayin.

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18. detroit baller on March 31st, 2010 4:59 pm
    

    what up i hated mj cause i’m from detroit but later i gained much respect for dudecause he would constantly attack the defense and the basket throughout the course of a game rather than the last few minutes that’s the true definition of taking over a game btw speaking of that bad boys defense the physicality and dirtiness with wich they played not even a pale shadow of that defense exists in todays nba there’s also the matter of today’s nba being a donut league as there are fewer true center than the atlantic division alone had in the 1990’s of the undersized jump shooting centers in todays nba none are allowed to protect the basket what with the 3 second calls. i watched mj get bodyslammed punched and elbowed almost every time he went to the basket by the pistons and dude just kept coming those were some bloody games literally cause mj got bloodied and injured so many times in that series yet continued to eschew the jumper and attack the defense setting up teammates or attacking the basket. i did not see even a little bit of this when kobe went up against bostons defense when you consider the fact that that celtics defense was in no way comparable to the defense of detroit or even most teams of that era (no diss to celtics rules don’t allow for truly physical play anymore) there is no way you could compare kobe to mj yes mj has superior numbers in nearly every category but those numbers cannot begin to tell how much better than kobe mj was by the numbers he’s quite a bit better but actually being there to watch his career he is then shockingly superior and the stats show that he gets even better in the playoffs something kobe hasn’t done in even one season playoff numbers always down from regular season he does amazing things in meaningless games. earlier in the post someone suggested mj could not have scored 81 points dude did you even watch the game did you even know phil wasn’t coacing la at the time the chief reason mj never had 81 and kobe did was phil jackson la was down 50 without enough time to even make the score look better yet kobe remained on the floor and continued to jack up shots somethin phil would never allow yet phil was in retirement that year conversly many times when mj had 50+ points with 9 or 10 minutes left in the third qurter and the bulls were blowing the other team out mj was never allowed to suit back up and play more minutes in fact most coaches wouldn’t btw la lost by 30+ in that game also kobe broke jordans record for consecutive 40 point games yet finished that season nearly 2 points lower than mj when he went on his scoring binge so consistency is in question there’s also the matter of jordans physical superiority over bryant they have nearly identical skill sets mj elevates those skill sets with sheer determination to beat you and a suprior body to perfom it is very easy to learn if you never saw mj play that he is stronger faster more competetive a higher jumper had the mentality to attack the basket first shoot later and was tough as nails iv’e seen players in the past punch kobe during games no one ever got in mikes face a lot and no one ever dared punch him cause they would get a carolina ass whuppin other players throughout his career knew this iv’e seen kobe get bullied at that point in his career with shaq bailing him out constantly coming to the rescue. mj was alredy one of the leagues best players three years before pippen entered the league even so it was 3 more years before pippen became the pippen all the kobe lovers like to mention as jordans reason for success quite the opposite mj molded pippen into the player he would later become before he was a tall skilled soft guy that didn’t like contact which reduced his effectiveness on d and pissed mj off so he worked with scottie after that no more retreating to the bench after getting punched or elbowed after watching the 2008 nba finals is there anyone on these forums who can with all honesty think that kobe would succeed against 80’s 90’s era defenses it’s no small coincidence that kobe’s scoring average jumped way up after the 99 season rule changes further evidence is the 2004 finals when la had a team that was supposed to set wins records yet nearly got swept by the pistons without kobe ever getting his regular season scoring average can anyone who actually watched mj play in his prime dipute my claim that he would average at least 40 ppg under today’s rules which are heavily in favor of offensive players. also competetiveness comes into question considering la has been a heavy favorite in every finals appearance since 2000 yet won 4 out of 6 titles in 9 years while chicago were heavy underdogs in all but 2 of 6 nba finals appearances winning all six in 8 years including 2 years of retirement from mj. mj had such longevity that younger hoops fans fail to realize he was at the time of winning his final title and scoring title and mvp he was 5 years older than kobe is now yet kobe plays older relying on his jumper and fadeaway more and more this started in kobes late 20’s i never saw mj really use the fadeaway regularly till age 34. the only way i could see kobe getting close to mj in terms of stats is la getting big time free agents to keep la winning hopefully a couple more titles.just my opinion but mj’s career arc consisted of being a top 3 player every year and not being in the conversation of best player right up until he won the first title kobe on the other hand was declared the next jordan from the time he came to the nba and was allowed to eventually grow into such a role so who’s more competeive a guy that basically had every accolade handed to him
    on loan till he eventually got there or a guy who’s had to fight,claw and scatch through brilliant clutch gameplay for every accolade he ever recieved even while on top the league had to find other people to give the mvp award to simply because many hofrs were close to retirement and many people got tired of mj winning it every year he would invariably destroy these guys in the playoffs and make stern look stupid

    [Reply]
19. detroit baller on March 31st, 2010 5:13 pm
    

    it is well documented that mj hran a 4.1 40 with a 50 inch vertical lebron despite his size not kobe is closer to mj in terms of athleticism continue to watch games you will see kobe is not even the fastest at his position by a longshot he plays opposite style of mj though with similarities kobe uses his jumper to open driving lanes mj uses the drive to set up the jumper

    [Reply]
20. KB24 on April 19th, 2010 6:23 pm
    

    Kobe wasn’t a starter til the lockout season and the Lakers teams’ shot less than the Bulls. Jordan got a larger share of his teams fg’s and way more total shots than Kobe. I still think Jordan was better but it’s not an unbelievable difference. Here are the stats broken down: http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2905114/kobe_vs_jordan_using_statistics_to.html?cat=14

    [Reply]

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